1510e Cymru-Catalonia - enw lle a grew˙d i ddifyrru'r Saeson / un topňnim inventat per entretenir els anglesos / explanation of this elongated place-name invented to fool English tourists/éksplřnéishřn řv dhis íilonggeitďd pléis-neim invéntďd tř fuul Íngglish túřrists

http://www.theuniversityofjoandeserrallonga.com/kimro/amryw/1_enwau/enwau_lleoedd_cymru_llanfairpwllgwyngyll_1_0510e.htm

0001z Yr Hafan / Home Page

..........1864e Y Fynedfa yn  Saesneg / English Gateway

...................0010e Y Gwegynllun / Siteplan

..............................1929e Cyfeirddalen â mathau o enwau / Orientation Page for names by type

.....................................................1995e Cyfeirddalen ag enwau yn ôl gwledydd / Orientaton Page for names by country

..................................................................1447e Enwau Cymru (tudalen cyfeiriol) / Welsh Names (Orientation Page)

.................................................................................y dudalen hon / this page




..





 

Gwefan Cymru-Catalonia
La Web de Gal·les i Catalunya
Wales-Catalonia Website

 

Llanfair Pwllgwyngyll
Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychw˙rndrobwllllantisiliogogogoch
a ridiculous name with 58 letters

Adolygiad diweddaraf - latest update : 04 01 2002

 

 0511c  Aquesta pŕgina en catalŕ
 xxxx (ddim ar gael eto) Y tudalen hwn yn Gymraeg  

Llanfair (8 letters) ..... Pwllgwyng˙ll (12 letters) ..... goger (5 letters) ..... y (1 letter) ..... chw˙rn (6 letters) ..... drobwll (7 letters) ..... Llantisilio (11 letters) ..... Gogo (4 letters) ..... goch (4 letters)

 Note - when y has the pronunciation [i] we have noted it as ˙, though it doesn't exist in standard spelling. The y without an umlaut is an obscure vowel (like the a in 'about').

(1) THE GENUINE NAME AND THE APPEARANCE OF THE FAKE NAME

One of the stereotyped ideas about Wales which English people have is that the place names are weird, unpronounceable and unnaturally long.

So it's not surprising that Wales has the distinction of having the longest place name in Britain and the world. Who but the Welsh would have a place name such as the village name in Môn with 58 letters! However Welsh-speakers find the fascination of English visitors for this name rather amusing.

What the tourists generally don't realise is that the name is a fabrication, put together in the nineteenth century. John Morris-Jones, a Welsh scholar (1864-1929), who was professor of Welsh at Bangor, had been brought up in Llanfair Pwllgwyng˙ll. In an article for the magazine of Cymdeithas Hynafiaethw˙r Môn (the Anglesey Antiquarian Society) (the date of which is unfortunately missing from my notes!) he recounted that in the 1880's a certain John Williams, a cabinet maker from the village of Tal-y-bont near Bangor had told him that he recalled a tailor from Y Borth {Porthaethw˙, or 'Menai Bridge' in English) creating the name. Other accounts state he was a cobbler. It seems that the idea was to persuade tourists to stop off in the village on their way to the port of Caergybi (Holyhead) in the north-west of the island.

The original name of the village is Llanfair, and the full name with a tag is Llanfair Pwllgwyng˙ll. There are many villages in Wales with the name 'Llanfair' (Church of the Virgin Mary), and to differentiate between them it was usual to add the name of the administrative unit in which it was situated. In many cases this name now exists only in the place name, and as a name for a township or territory it has passed into oblivion. Pwllgwyng˙ll is the name of a medieval division.

An example of the correct name in use that I have to hand is on the back cover of the magazine 'Y Faner Newydd', Rhif / Number 15, Haf / Summer 2000. A photo of the Garn mountain is credited to "Wyn Griffith, Llanfair Pwllygwyngyll".

The local name is for Llanfair Pwllgwyng˙ll is the reduced form Llanfair Pwll.  Since 1988 the local community council has adopted this as the offical name of the village (though for some reason erroneously spelt as one word – Llanfairpwll)

(2) WHAT THE ENGLISH CALL IT

The English call it Llanfair PG. Years ago this form appeared on local direction signs - to save space, the highway authorities used the form Llanfair P. G., using the initials of Pwll and Gwyng˙ll. A similar example of this shorthand in North Wales was Llanarmon Dyffr˙n Ceiriog, which became Llanarmon D. C. on roadsigns. It later found its way onto maps.

The form Llanfair PG was really not necessary since this authentic local form Llanfair Pwll already existed.

As English people normally do not know a word of Welsh, and usually have little interest in the language, they naturally insist on pronouncing Welsh names as if they were English names - but they base this pronunciation on the written form. Instead of [LHAN-ver], they say [LAN-feř], as if it was made up of an element 'lan', plus 'fair' (= that is, a weekly market or an amusement park).

The letter 'f' in Welsh of course always stands for the sound [v], never [f], which is spelt 'ff'!

Thus to English people it is Lanfare Pee-Gee [LAN-feř pii-JII]

 

(3) A BRIEF EXPLANATION OF THE ELONGATED NAME

From the starting point of a genuine name with twenty letters, a nineteen-letter string was added, very untypical of any genuine Welsh place name ('opposite the rapid whirlpool') (there is a whirlpool in Afon Menai, the Menai strait, by the village), and after this another place name from the south of Wales. The neighbouring parish is Llantysilio (Ordnance Survey map reference: SH/5473) - but there is another one in Ceredigion, distinguished by the tag Gogo 'of the cave'. Llandysilio Gogo (Ordnance Survey map reference: SN/3657)

To make this name even more amusing for English-speakers the adjective 'coch' was added. Thus there were three syllables 'go' in succession and a final 'ch' which nowadays is unpronouncable for most English-speakers (it occurred though in English in medieval times, as the spellings right, cough, Vaughan, Gough, lough, indicate)

To make the name even more ridiculous it was spelt without any spacing between the various elements.

Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogoch

(In the name, the form Llantysilio is used. This is an incorrect form that was used oficially in the last century. There are six villages bearing this name in Wales - nowadays the correct form is in use (or at least it is in Welsh) with a 'd' - Llandysilio).

If the name had been genuine, it would not have been written as a single word; it would probably have been:

Llanfair Pwllgwyng˙ll goger y Chw˙rn Drobwll Llantysilio Gogo Goch

 

(4) TRANSLATION OF THE NAME

Usually the name is translated as
The Church of Mary of the Pool of White Hazels near the Rapid Whirlpool (and the) Church of Tysilio of the Red Cave

In fact, the original name means
'Llanfair' in the township of 'Pwllgwyng˙ll'

(although it is true that Llanfair is the Church of Mary, and Pwll Gwyng˙ll is the Pool of White Hazels)

 

(5) COMMENTS

Letter in the Welsh-language paper Y Cymro (Mai 5 1999) (the letter-writer's name was not mentioned). Alongside the letter is a photo of the name sign with the ridiculous 58-letter name on the platform of the village railway station. It appears that there is some kind of 'phonetic' explanation in English orthography (English being particularly unsuited for respelling foreign words to indicate the pronunciation because of the very many inconsistencies in its orthography). I can only say that I agree wholeheartedly with the writer

Y mae yr arw˙dd gerbron yr orsaf reilffordd gyda'r enw hiraf yn y b˙d wedi cythruddo mw˙ nag un o ddarllenw˙r y Cymro. Dyma a ddywedodd un a sgrifennodd atom:

"Y mae amr˙w yn cael eu cynddeiriogi wrth sylwi ar orsaf y rheilffordd yn Llanfair Pwll. Y mae'r enw hir arferol yno, wrth gwrs, ond o dan yr enw hwnnw ceir y fastardiaith a ganl˙n: Llan-Vire-Pooll-Guin-Gill-Go-Ger-U-Queern-Drob-Ooll-Llandus-Ilio-Gogo-Goch. Y mae cardiau post gyda darlun o'r orsaf a'r arw˙ddbost hir hwn ar werth mewn siopau ledled gogledd Cymru. Y mae Canolfan Grefftau yn Llanberis hef˙d, s˙dd yn gwerthu llyfr˙n Saesneg s˙n'n rhoi tip˙n o hanes Beth Gellert!

Pw˙ a w˙r, dichon y b˙dd arw˙ddion eraill yng Nghymru c˙n bo hir yn cyfeirio'r ymwelw˙r i:

Kire-Gub-ee, Pon-Tup-Reeth a Kire-Deeth a dichon y byddai'n syniad da pw˙so ar y Kun-Ill-Yad Kened-Lithe-Hole i drefnu fod arw˙ddion addas yn cael eu gosod yng ngorsafoedd mannau del Lynd-Yn, Tsies-Dar a Luf-Yr-Pul ar gyfer ymwelw˙r o Gymru".

Translation: The sign by the railway station with the longest name in the world has been a source of irritation to more than one reader of 'Y Cymro'. These are the words of one letter-writer:

"Many people are riled by what they see at the railway station in Llanfair Pwll. The usual long name is there, of course, but below the name is the following abomination:

Llan-Vire-Pooll-Guin-Gill-Go-Ger-U-Queern-Drob-Ooll-Llandus-Ilio-Gogo-Goch.

There are postcards with a picture of the station and this long sign on sale in shops throughout North Wales. There's also a Craft Centre in Llanberis which sells a booklet in English giving a short history of Beth Gellert [Note: The village has always been spelt correctly in Welsh Beddgelert 'the grave of Celert']. Who knows, maybe there will be other signs in North Wales soon directing tourists to:

Kire-Gub-ee [for: Caergybi], Pon-Tup-Reeth [for: Pont-y-pridd], and Kire-Deeth [for: Caer-d˙dd] and maybe it would be a good idea to bring pressure to bear on the Kun-Ill-Yad Kened-Lithe-Hole [Cynulliad Cenedlaethol - the autonomous 'assembly' (parliament) in Wales] to see to it that suitable signs are erected in the stations of places such as Lynd-Yn [= London], Tsies-Dar [= Chester] a Luf-Yr-Pul [= Liverpool] for visitors from Wales".

 

(6) HOW ENGLISH TOWNS COULD BOOST TOURISM!

Surprisingly no English village or town has followed the example!

But the process of creating ridiculous names is quite simple. This is how it could be done, on the lines of Llanfair-ac-yn-y-blaen (= Llanfair et cetera)

1

Suppose we have a name which is already fairly long. Let's choose 'Kingston upon Thames'. Local people call it simply Kingston. But that's too short. To make it look stranger, we'll spell it as one word. Kingstonuponthames.

This is what has happened with Llanfair (or Llanfair Pwll, or Llanfair Pwllgwyng˙ll). Locally, it would be merely Llanfair usually. Spell it as one word to make it seem exotic and incomprehensible. Llanfairpwllgwyng˙ll.

2

Next we need to add some sort of explicative phrase to extend the name. What about - 'where the rich people live'?

Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelive

This is what happened with Llanfairpwllgwyng˙ll. To it was added 'goger y chw˙rn drobwll' = opposite the rapid whirlpool.

Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychw˙rndrobwll...

3

Next we need to add the name of a town in another part of the country which resembles the name of a neighbouring town. Upriver from Kingston on Thames is Henley on Thames. And in the Midlands of England we have Henley in Arden. Let's add this second name.

Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinarden

 

4

Next to Llanfair is the parish of Llandysilio (incorrectly spelt as Llantysilio in the last century). In mid-Wales, in Ceredigion, there's another name of the same name with the tag 'gogo' (= cave). Llandysilio Gogo. This has more possibilities for humour.

Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychw˙rndrobwllllantysiliogogo

If we add the adjective 'goch' (feminine form of 'coch' = red; 'gogo' = cave is a feminine noun) to the name we have the Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychw˙rndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. 58 letters! 18 syllables!

So lastly we need to add a tag to 'Arden', something which should sound similar, and thus enhance the ridiculousness of the name. How about 'garden'?

Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinardengarden. 58 letters! 18 syllables!

(The fact that the new name for this English town also has 58 letters and 18 syllables is pure coincidence. Maybe there is some universal rule for ridiculous names which I have stumbled across)

5

The next step is to stick the name on the station platform, and underneath it a phoneticised Welsh version to help Welsh visitors pronounce it. The pronunciation represented in Welsh will be far off the mark as the two phonological systems are somewhat different.

Kingstonuponthameswheretherichpeoplelivehenleyinardengarden

Cing-styn-ypon-tems-węr-dhy-ritsh-pî-pyl-lif-hen-li-in-â-dyn-gâ-dyn

Then wait for the tourists!

 

One of the websites below comments on an attempt to inflict another nonsense name on Wales (J Bayer Website).

Diesen Ortsnamen wollte man aber noch überbieten durch Neukonstruktion des folgenden Wortes, um eine Aufnahme in's Guiness Book of Records zu erreichen - was aber nicht gelang:

Translation of the German text: "Some people wanted to go one better than this place-name (Llanfair...) with a new construction made up of the following words, in order to gain a mention in the Guinness Book of Records - but they were unsuccessful"

"Gorsafawddacha'idraigddanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion"

See our page in this website commenting on this completely ridiculous name, and the many grammatical errors within it - 0479e Gorsafawddach

 

NONSENSE SECTION

Some links about the village and its false name. Why we include some of these links I'm not sure!

 

LLUN / FOTO

01

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/airhart/wl_longn.html

TITLE: RICK'S PICTURES

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

Mae ffoto o'r pentref i'w weld yn "Rick's Pictures"
There's a photo of Llanfair Pwll in 'Rick's Pictures'

 

·····

 

YNGANIAD / PRONUNCIACIÓ

02

http://www.nwi.co.uk/llanfair/say.htm TEITL / TITLE: "How to Say the Name Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychwyrndrobwllllantisiliogogogoch"

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

Sut mae dweud enw'r pentref (neu sut mae dweud yr enw â llediaith Saesneg). Mae hef˙d ddadansoddiad o'r enw s˙dd ddim yn hollol iawn. (Os daw 'ogo' o 'ogof' pam mae'r ffurf 'gogo' yn yr enw? Gwelwch ein dadansoddiad ninnau pan ddof o h˙d i'm hen nodiadau a'u rhoi yma

A page which explains how to pronounce the name. I haven't heard the sound file but following these instructions you'll end up saying it according to how an English person thinks Welsh is spoken, and so it sounds radically different from how a Welsh-speaker would pronounce it

(QUESTION: would any Welsh-speaker be moved to do such a thing? Why entertain foreigners with this idiotic name? Why make fun of the Welsh language and Wales in this way?).

There is also a breakdown of the name which is a bit wide of the mark sometimes. Some inconsistencies: if 'ogo' is from 'ogof' = cave, why is the form 'gogo' in the name? See our notes above.

 

·····

 03

http://www.llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk/

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

TITLE: "The longest URL on the web".

 

"It is believed that the name Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch was invented by a cobbler from Menai Bridge, little did he know that he had implemented one of the most successful tourist marketing plans of all time! Today the village is signposted as Llanfairpwllgwyng˙ll and is known to locals as Llanfairpwll or Llanfair P. G."

Hynn˙ ˙w, Lanfare Pee-Gee i'r Saeson. Wedi'r cwbl, does neb o'r 'locals' (chwedl yr awdur hwn) yn dweud 'Llanfair PG'. Dim ond ein cyfeillion o'r tu hwnt i Glawdd Offa. Llanfair Pwll (dau air) ddylai fe fod hef˙d, yn hytrach na Llanfairpwll.

I doubt that any Welsh-born 'local' would call it 'Llanfair P.G.'. English people visiting the area or who have moved into the area would be the only ones guilty of calling it 'Lanfare Pee-Gee', I should think. Local people call it Llanfair Pwll (Note: two words)

 

·····

 04

http://www.britishadventures.com/decsite.htm TITLE: British Adventures

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

Rhagor o falu cachu am Lanfare Pee-Gee. Tair ffoto i dwrisitiaid o Saeson, idd˙n nhw ddod i nabod Cymru yn well - eglw˙s y plw˙f (eglw˙s y byddigions), Cofgolofn Nelson, a Cholofn Ardal˙dd Môn (dhř Marcwis of Ángylsi).

More nonsense about Lanfare Pee Gee. Three photos to misrepresent the place - for the edification of tourists there are such irrelevancies as the Parish Church (the Anglican Church in Wales is historically the church of the Anglicised gentry and of English settlers), Nelson's Monument (what connection did Nelson ever have with Wales?) and The Marquis of Anglesey's Column (member of an estranged gentry family - an island of Englishness on a Welsh-speaking island). But have a look anyway!

 

·····

 05

http://www.menternet.org.uk/llanfair/cyswllt/cyswlltw.htm TITLE: CYSWLLT

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

 

"Cyswllt yw enw cymdeithas cymuned y pentref, a sefydlwyd ym mis Mawrth 1994. Prif nod Cyswllt yw chwarae rôl grwp ambarel ar gyfer cyrff gwirfoddol ac unigolion yn y pentref sydd am gyfrannu i lwyddiant y gymuned gan ddatblygu cyfleusterau a gweithgareddau newydd...."

Tudalen yn Gymraeg i drio ein hargyhoeddi fod yna Gymr˙ yn dal i f˙w yn Lanfare Pee-Gee!

TRANSLATION: "Cyswllt" [= connection] is the name of the village community association, set up in March 1994. The main aim of Cyswllt is to act as an umbrella group for voluntary bodies and individuals in the village who wish to contribute to the success of the community through developing new activities and facilities..."

 

·····

 06

http://www.data-wales.co.uk/dw37.jpg TITLE: DATA-WALES

 

vella postal amb una foto des de l'aire del poble (1939)

an old postcard with an aerial view of the village taken in 1939

 

·····

 07

http://www.n-e-t.co.uk/~gwyfhs/agytext.htm TITLE: PLWYFI EGLWYSIG SIR FON / ECCLESIASTICAL PARISHES OF ANGLESEY

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

 

(Cymdeithas Hel Achau Gwynedd - ond dim ond enw uniaith Saesneg s˙dd yma, 'Gwynedd Family History Society'. A'r gwefan i g˙d hef˙d, ar wahân i'r teitl. Rhag cywil˙dd!)

Map o Fôn s˙'n dangos plw˙fi'r yn˙s

The Website (in English only, apart from four words of Welsh in the title of this page) of the Gwynedd Family History Society. Shame on them! A map of the parishes of Môn, if you want to see where Llanfair Pwll is situated

 

·····

 08

http://britannia.com/celtic/wales/facts/facts6.html#murder

More nonsense about this place name

"Translated, the name reads: the Church of Mary in a white hollow by a hazel tree near a rapid whirlpool by the church of St. Tisilio by a red cave. You can use the short form of the name on your letters to the village: "Llanfairpwllgwyng˙ll" or simply "Llanfair P.G."...

Whoops! Not quite the correct translation. But who cares?

 

 

 

·····

 

 

 09

DEUTSCHE ABTEILUNG / GERMAN SECTION

 http://www.weigendorf.de/~bayerj/wales/welsh.htm

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

 

Kurze Einführung in die walisische Sprache

Da meine Frau aus Wales stammt, möchte ich hier die wichtigsten Ausspracheregeln der walisischen Sprache erklären, die zwar sehr schwer zu erlernen, aber - trotz der oft befremdenden Schreibung - ziemlich leicht auszusprechen ist...

German text: "Since my wife is from Wales, here I'd like to explain the most important pronunciation rules of the Welsh language, which indeed is very hard to learn, but - in spite of the spelling which often appears strange - is quite easy to pronounce"

Sound file with the pronunciation of the name

Unfortunately others have jumped on the bandwagon and have come up with another long name.

Diesen Ortsnamen wollte man aber noch überbieten durch Neukonstruktion des folgenden Wortes, um eine Aufnahme in's Guiness Book of Records zu erreichen - was aber nicht gelang:

"Gorsafawddacha'idraigddanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion"

German text: "Some people wanted to go one better than this place-name (Llanfair...) with a new construction made up of the following words, in order to gain a mention in the Guinness Book of Records - but they were unsuccessful"

See our page in this website commenting on this completely ridiculous name, and the many grammatical errors within it - Gorsafawddach etc

 

·····

 10

http://gl15.bio.tu-darmstadt.de/mensa/llanfair.html

(05 09 2001 – page seems no longer to exist)

 

Ein Dorf in Wales hat angeblich einen der längsten Namen der Welt:

Llanfairpwllgwyng˙llgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Der Internationale Vorsitzende von Mensa, Udo Schultz, ist Wales-Fan und kann das Ungetüm aussprechen...

German text: A village in Wales supposedly has the world's longest name. The international president of Mensa, Udo Schultz, is a fan of Wales and can pronounce the monster...

 

05 09 2001 - adolygiad diweddaraf - latest update


Ble’r w˙f i? Yr ˙ch chi’n ymwéld ag un o dudalennau’r Gwefan "CYMRU-CATALONIA"
On sóc? Esteu visitant una pŕgina de la Web "CYMRU-CATALONIA" (= Gal·les-Catalunya)
Where am I? You are visiting a page from the "CYMRU-CATALONIA" (= Wales-Catalonia) Website
Weř(r) ŕm ai? Yuu ŕa(r) vízďting ř peij frňm dhř "CYMRU-CATALONIA" (= Weilz-Katřlóuniř) Wébsait

CYMRU-CATALONIA

 

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